Amna Nawaz:
Over his eight years as California governor, Gavin Newsom has become one of the Democratic Party’s most vocal critics of President Trump.
As speculation swirls around Newsom’s own potential presidential bid, he’s been hitting the road and raising money to get more Democrats elected at the state level, where he says his party took their eye off the ball.
Producer Matthew Loffman and I met up with Newsom in North and South Carolina for this report and an exclusive one-on-one interview.
Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-CA):
We’re up against an invasive species in the name of Donald Trump.
(Applause)
Amna Nawaz:
The California governor taking his fiery brand on the road and deep into Republican counties in Alabama and the Carolinas.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
This 2026, it’s all on the line. We have drawn the line…
Amna Nawaz:
… states where Republican efforts to redraw congressional maps are helping to motivate Democrats ahead of November’s midterm elections, like Ann Elliott.
Do you think it’s different this year?
Ann Elliott, South Carolina Democratic voter: I feel a change in the air a little bit.
Amna Nawaz:
Why? What do you feel?
Ann Elliott:
Well, I think people are miffed and people are beginning to pay more attention.
Amna Nawaz:
That attention has also turned to 2028 and speculation about whether Governor Newsom hopes to be President Newsom.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
It’s the election that defines all the elections we have had.
Amna Nawaz:
That’s brought the eyes of traditional media, content creators, and, most importantly, voters.
Woman:
Thank you for being here.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
My honor. Thank you.
Amna Nawaz:
South Carolina for the first time will be first on the Democrats’ nominating calendar as they work to pick their party’s nominee.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Thank you, all of you for what you will do.
Amna Nawaz:
Voters like Christian Mergner came to hear the governor’s message and kick the tires on a potential candidate.
Christian Mergner, South Carolina Democratic Voter:
I think he’s got a strong understanding and a strong background. He seems very genuine and sincere. He’s got a laugh. Humor and empathy go hand in hand, just like communication and trust do. And he’s got that.
Amna Nawaz:
Yokima Cureton, volunteering for the state Democratic Party for the first time, is already all in for a potential Newsom campaign.
Is this someone you think might run for president or should run for president? And would you support him?
Yokima Cureton, South Carolina Democratic Voter:
Absolutely. I think he should, and I absolutely would support him. I like that he continues to push the envelope on what’s going on in the rural communities. And I feel like that grassroots effort is really what’s going to push us over the top.
(Cheering)
Amna Nawaz:
But, for now, Newsom says he’s focused on showing up to boost turnout for 2026.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Remind people what’s wrong.
Amna Nawaz:
This year, he hopes Trump turns up too.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
His record’s hard to defend right now, particularly in states like North Carolina and South Carolina. So I’d be encouraged if he shows up. The one thing that we should be sober about is the amount of money he can bring to these races.
And so I think the Democratic Party would be wise to be cautious about overreading the polls at this moment, because those resources could start to shift.
Amna Nawaz:
You think those races, to tighten…
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I think they legitimately could.
Amna Nawaz:
Even beyond November, Newsom says Democrats need to build back at the state level, not just in strongholds, but in places like Lancaster County, South Carolina…
Woman:
Thank you so much for coming.
Amna Nawaz:
… where, back in 2024, Donald Trump won by 24 points. That is where we sat down for a longer conversation on his party, his ambitions, and why he says Democrats need to do things differently.
I began by asking him why he’s focused on red and rural counties.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Well, I get a lot of Democrats say, well, don’t waste your resources. And I think what they really mean is money. But I — and I could see that argument. I can intellectually. If you have a limited amount of money and it’s a scarcity issue, where do you invest those dollars?
But time is free. Showing up, just having the decency to say you’re worth the drive, that’s — there’s no excuse not to do that. And our party hasn’t done that for 20-plus years. I said — I was in Alabama my first stop.
I remember talking about this in a March 2010 op-ed in The Wall Street Journal that Karl Rove wrote saying our strategy is to spend $30 million on this red map initiative to win back state House and Senate seats, so that we can use those seats to then redistrict to determine the future of Congress. And he won 675 seats; 2010 was the last time we had a majority in these Southern states.
We had a majority then, but we turned our back after that. They won almost 1,000 of these state seats, and the Democratic Party was focused on the guy or gal to come save the day. We were watching cable news. And we were waiting for the presidential cycle.
We weren’t doing the hard work of courthouses and school boards and city council and state races. And so that’s why I’m here focusing on those races and trying to focus the energy of the Democratic Party on a long-term strategy that we have abandoned.
Amna Nawaz:
Yes.
You mentioned redistricting, and we all know you were able to push through new maps in California, other Democratic efforts in Virginia and Maryland and New York weren’t as successful, but even your effort expires, right, in 2030.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
And I have also heard you say again and again that Democrats keep trying to win arguments, while the other side is consolidating power.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Yes. Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
So do you want to see Democrats do more to consolidate power? If Democrats win majorities in these state legislatures, should they be pushing for more redistricting?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Well, we got to win. The right is ruthless. The right is ruthless. They are. They’re not screwing around.
Amna Nawaz:
So you’re saying yes to more Democratic redistricting?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I’m saying — I’m saying — well, I’m saying what the voters of California said, and I was proud to write that initiative, and that is we need national independent redistricting.
So we did two things. By the way, we did the first thing, which was we allowed the voters for the first time in American history to decide for themselves. We didn’t do that to them. We did that on their behalf. And so the voters decided those maps.
But they also on that same ballot had another question: Should we have national independent redistricting?
Amna Nawaz:
Yes.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
And that was affirmative. And so we need to do that.
Amna Nawaz:
But short of a national system at the state level, do you think more states should be doing that?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Well, we — then we got to fight fire with fire. I’m done. I’m done. I’m done with watching women’s rights roll back, LGBTQ rights. I’m done with seeing the Voting Rights Act being vandalized. I’m done seeing our inheritance, this country and this nation being completely squandered by short-termism.
So, absolutely. You know what? Until we can level that playing field, yes, I’m going to — I believe in fighting fire with fire. I think Democrats need to grow a backbone and we need to stop being a little self-righteous and a little highbrow in terms of just trying to intellectually win arguments, because of the ruthlessness of the other side.
I just can’t watch people suffer because we’re just — we’re playing by an old set of rules. We are. We have been.
Amna Nawaz:
So let me ask you about how Democrats can win back control of Congress, because it’s been a pretty revealing primary season for the party, right, a reckoning, some have called it too.
You saw how many wins DSA candidates, Democratic Socialist candidates, were able to win, Donavan McKinney in Michigan, Chris Rabb in Pennsylvania, Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan. He doesn’t identify as DSA, but was sort of aligned with them.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Yes. Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
If you have these candidates and this platform that is clearly animating the base, energizing turnout, should more of those ideas be worked into the broader Democratic platform?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I think they are.
I mean, we want money out of politics. I have been supporting clean money campaigns for decades. We have a public finance…
Amna Nawaz:
But there seems to be a little distance between some leadership and those DSA candidates.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
But not the ideas. We want Medicare. I mean, I believe in universal health care, and I believe in Medicare for all. the party does overwhelmingly, I mean, you poll people in the party. I mean, so if it’s about more money in your pocket, lowering costs, it’s about getting money out of politics, and it’s about Medicare for all, I think we’re pretty aligned.
It’s about recognizing that we have got a planet that is getting hotter and drier, and that we have got to address the issue of climate change, and we want energy security, and we want to move off fossil fuels. That’s a DSA position. That’s a mainstream position within the Democratic Party.
So I think, in many ways, it’s just a label. And it’s a familiar — forgive me. You’re talking the wrong person. It’s such a familiar label to me.
Amna Nawaz:
Yes.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
We called them progressives. It was the Green Party. I ran against the Green Party. It’s on the exact same platform 20 years ago. Maybe it’s because I’m from the Bay Area. Maybe it’s because from California.
And I think it’s healthy. I just think it’s — I’m not consumed by this. I don’t think there’s a great — I just — I think it’s the natural — it’s how — it’s reflected Kucinich and just aspects and component parts of our party that we have always had, and it’s a healthy dialectic within the party.
Amna Nawaz:
I want to ask you about some of the Democratic messaging when it comes to taking on the president and talking about President Trump.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
You saw House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries took a lot of flack for a meeting that he took with Jared Kushner, your fellow Californian. Congressman Ro Khanna said he shouldn’t have done it. He said it undermined the party’s base.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
Do you agree with that?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
No, no. I’m not as offended by it. Come on. So he met with him. I care about — I met with Trump for 90 minutes.
Amna Nawaz:
Did anything come of that meeting, of Jeffries’ meeting?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I don’t know. You got to ask Jeffries. I mean, but you know what? I met with Trump 90 minutes.
Amna Nawaz:
Yes.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I meet with my father-in-law all the time, big Republican. Come on.
(Crosstalk)
Amna Nawaz:
… your meeting with the president.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I sit down on my podcast. I have been rightfully criticized by people like him that don’t like meeting with people they disagree with.
But divorce is not an option in this country. And so the idea that they met did not offend me. I understand it offended the base, and I’m not naive to the concern about that, but I’m personally not concerned about Speaker Jeffries doing appropriate oversight. So that will be the determination.
I will criticize him if he doesn’t unleash the oversight committees. I want to see real accountability. And, by the way, I think you know enough about what I have been saying. I’m not messing around when it comes to accountability.
Amna Nawaz:
What does that mean?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
This great grift, the corruption, if any of that’s illegal, we run every single one of that down. I mean, all these sole source contracts, the crony capitalism, the state capitalism, I mean, we run all of them down.
Amna Nawaz:
And you would go after President Trump in that case as well?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I think you go after — if there are — if things have been done illegally, you hold these folks accountable. If we don’t, shame on us. And so that’s the job of the speaker.
And knowing Speaker Jeffries, I’m not concerned about that at all. So I don’t get offended by who people meet. I care about their actions, not the fact that they’re meeting and engaging folks they may disagree with. And, by the way, why am I here in a red county? I want to meet people I disagree with.
We all want to be loved. We need to be loved. We want to be connected, respected, and protected. But I get the atmospherics of that and what Kushner represents and all the Saudi money and all the conflicts and the Board of Peace, which is all about him getting a piece of the Middle East. That is about action, not about a meeting, and that will be judged on the basis of Speaker Jeffries’ performance.
Amna Nawaz:
On the accountability front, do you want to see Democrats impeach the president if they win back the majority?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
If the facts — wherever the facts lead. And I’m not naive about the politics of that, because it will be a sideshow and distraction. What I don’t want to do is see another impeachment that amounts to nothing except a virtue signal.
And that’s important. I mean, I just don’t want a sideshow, and we, again, should be focused as we have in California on $11 insulin, which is the only state in the country that does that, focusing more on getting those diapers in the hands of newborns and doing more on paid sick leave and family leave, doing more on universal health care.
No other state’s done more than us and in childcare, and having that positive alternative and affirmative agenda. And I think that, we would be better off, but accountability across the board. And it’s not just Trump. It’s all the folks that are complicit in this great grift. It’s all the folks that are complicit in the rank corruption that is going on in this administration.
Amna Nawaz:
You want to see the president held accountable, his Cabinet members?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I want to see all — anyone that has broken the law.
Amna Nawaz:
You want to see his family?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Anyone that’s broken the law. Anyone that’s taken advantage of the American people, picked their pocket illegally should be held to account, period, full stop. It’s not complicated.
Amna Nawaz:
South Carolina is also going to be the first primary state.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Oh, there’s that.
Amna Nawaz:
You have been to New Hampshire, you have been to Nevada, you have been to Michigan. They’re all early states. Look, the assumption is that you are running for president in 2028. What would lead you not to run?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Big enough why to endure, as Nietzsche said, any how, not being able to look you in the eye and say I have a compelling vision that I think is better than the people that are standing next to me left and right, that I meet the moment and that I’m not wasting your time or anyone else’s time, that we can actually be successful.
I’m not naive about people’s perception of me or California and the California derangement syndrome that rages 24/7 on FOX, for all those reasons. And also, sorry, but it’s true. I got four young kids, and two of them were fighting last night, and I was just getting home from a fund-raiser, and I was — dinner was called in the hotel room at 10:30, and Hunter and Dutch were screaming and yelling at each other.
And I just — like, I didn’t know what to — I was like, I’m a horrible parent.
Amna Nawaz:
Do your kids want you to run?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Two of them do. Two of them absolutely don’t.
Amna Nawaz:
It’s a house divided.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Don’t ruin us, Dad. Don’t do this to us. Don’t do this to me, Dad. Don’t do this. Literally, explicit.
Amna Nawaz:
You won’t run unless all of them agree?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
You talk about a focus group. I don’t care what the Kalshi says or your Polymarket says, or what the DSA says about me, because I’m some, what — that’s what matters is what they say, and obviously my rock star wife.
Amna Nawaz:
Governor Newsom, you’re very comfortable in this format, I should say. It’s almost like you have your own podcast show.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
Podcast.
I know, but not everyone loves my guests.
Amna Nawaz:
Would you keep the podcast if you were president?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I — oh, that’s interesting. As president, a presidential podcast, that’s kind of a little different, a little different than a fireside chat. It’s kind of a modern version.
Amna Nawaz:
It is. Is that a good idea?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I’m sitting back. I’m thinking. I’m thinking about what I would what I wear. Is it a sweater? Is it more a relaxing, approachable look?
Amna Nawaz:
Depends on the season, I think.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I don’t know. I just — I feel my physiology changed when you said that.
Amna Nawaz:
But it’s a powerful messaging tool, right? Is it a good idea for a president to have his own podcast?
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
I think it’s a fantastic one. I think you have to meet people where they are, and the reason I’m doing a podcast is I’m trying to iterate.
Amna Nawaz:
Yes.
Gov. Gavin Newsom:
And after we got shellacked last year, I just felt like we needed to do different things. That’s exactly why I changed my social media. Continue to do it. Done. Get what you got.
That’s why I did the Patriot SOT. That’s why I’m selling these kneepads to university presidents that are selling out and law firms that are selling out. I’m sorry. I just try new things. I think we need to try new things. Iterate. Take risks.
Amna Nawaz:
To watch our full 50-minute interview, including more on A.I. data centers, transgender rights, and Newsom’s final months as California governor, check out the latest episode of “Settle In” available tomorrow morning on our YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcasts.
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